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Should the St. Louis Rams use the franchise tag to retain Brandon Lloyd in 2012?
In the weeks since the season ended, fans and pundits alike have had plenty to say about the status of St. Louis Rams' free agent wide receiver Brandon Lloyd. One question not being asked that probably should be, is whether or not the team should use the franchise tag to keep Lloyd? The notion of tagging Lloyd deserves some serious consideration.
Read more about the circumstances, costs and the deadline for tagging Lloyd after the jump. Then, vote in the poll and join the discussion.
Using the tag, would put the Rams on the hook for a one-year salary of $9.4 million. Thanks to a new system of calculating franchise tag amounts in the new CBA, that number is lower than the $11.4 million it was under the old CBA.
That looks like a big chuck of salary, and it is, given the team's other needs and interests, notably cornerback Cortland Finnegan.
Rams COO Kevin Demoff told TST on Friday that the Rams are anticipating, for now, approximately $10 million in cap space. That reaffirms our previous conversation, from this fall, with Demoff about anticipated cap space for 2011. According to Demoff, that's based on the assumption that everyone under contract returns at their current amount. Obviously that will change for several reasons. Cuts, restructured contracts, and all the other factors teams can use to finagle cap space will be the key to off season roster changes.
The money to franchise Lloyd should not be seen as a significant obstacle.
The argument for or against franchising Lloyd is one of opportunity costs (back to your Intro to Business textbooks for that one).
Tagging Lloyd would almost certainly remove the Rams from the race to pursue other free agent receivers, such as Vincent Jackson. Is that worth it? It would probably be a cheaper to use the franchise tag, leaving them options for 2013. It would also limit free agent options at other positions.
Bringing Lloyd back in 2012 would give the team more options in the 2012 NFL Draft. For one thing, they would be under no pressure to draft Justin Blackmon at a higher draft spot than he deserves. That flexibility would be especially attractive if they do not trade down from the second spot in the draft.
More than anything, bringing Lloyd back under the tag sews up a major need for the Rams offense. Lloyd along with a healthy Danny Amendola, progress from Greg Salas and Lance Kendricks would give them a decent base in the passing game. (No, I'm not counting on much from Danario Alexander and his five knee surgeries, the stone-handed Austin Pettis or any of the other holdovers). They would still need to add some explosiveness to that group of receivers, but going into the off season with Lloyd on board is a good starting place.
Teams can begin using franchise tags on Monday and may continue to do so until March 5.
0 recs | 89 comments
Yes for continuity sake
We can’t keep changing offenses and offensive players every year and expect Sam to be able to flourish. If they aren’t able to get a deal done with Lloyd that would allow the team to be able to make other moves in other areas, they should tag him. It’s not like they would be tagging some scrub since he has been the lone bright spot at the position. The only way I would be ok with them not tagging him would be if they somehow got someone that way heads and shoulders better than him.
willEYEam - February 19, 2012
I think we use it as a threat against him
If he doesn’t sign a long term deal, we franchise him, and he might miss out on his last shot at a big contract.
King Sam Rules! - February 19, 2012 via mobile
You don't think that by forcibly tagging him that it will cause the 'ugly side' that we have heard rumbling about him to come out?
willEYEam - February 19, 2012
He will get his long term deal he wants
And he likes Fisher, he just prefers McD. I think he will be fine as long as he gets p-p-payed.
King Sam Rules! - February 19, 2012 via mobile
$9.4mil changes a lot of issues.
Nothing to shake a stick at.
jmo53 - February 19, 2012 via Android app
Yes,
I think that is exactly what would happen. That was my gut reaction when I read the subject line. Franchise Tagging pisses off the best mannered players, this will probably send this guy’s head spinning and pea soup for everyone.
Guitpik - February 19, 2012
9.4 million
Absolutely not! Even if we do use the tag on him, how long do we expect him to stick around? Pay that to Vincent, Desean, Pierre, or Stevie, not Lloyd IMO. If we’re going to draft a WR, get Danny back and expect ANYTHING out of Kendrick’s/Salas/Pettis then we don’t pay that kinda money for B Lloyd….even as much as I’d like him to stay. Not at that price
DCRamFan - February 19, 2012
I think so
Lloyd is coming into his age 31 season. In FA, he will want a 5yr deal. Let’s use him for a
year as our number one and also as a mentor for a top WR draftee. Even Blackmon is not going to be capable of being a #1 guy for Sam right away.
cuseguy - February 19, 2012
If he wants $5mil a season
why not give him 3 years $15mil. Secure Lloyd for a few years and let him help develop the young guys. $9.4mil for one year is too much for Lloyd imo.
jmo53 - February 19, 2012 via Android app
Both good points
But would not franchise a 31 year old. What about $6M at 2 seasons. Would that be enough to keep him?
I know Condon will be a PITA when it comes to negotiating and I have my doubts at $6M a season.
81 Witness - February 19, 2012
That deal sounds good too
just to ensure he’d stay.
jmo53 - February 19, 2012 via Android app
I thought someone said that we can't tag him because of his FA status
But no, not for that much.
sergey606 - February 19, 2012 via mobile
No way
Lloyd is a good receiver but not a $10mil receiver. If we want to spend that much money on a receiver we can get one of the free agents to come here. We could probably get both Pierre Garcon and Robert Meachem for that much, and they both have the potential to be as good as Lloyd if they keep developing.
Scato - February 19, 2012
Just a little too much dough.
This is a great question. We are lacking in depth at WR. We really don’t have that break away big play type WR. Lloyd is still quick and still has the hands. His contract is a little steep. Question is if you do keep him where are you going to free up the money without being penalized. After weighing all options I would probably let him walk. We could draft a WR and sign a good one in free agency. If we bring in a free agent it will likely save us money. After the latest union agreement rookies don’t get the blind bucks as much anymore, so signing a great rookie with promise will get more bang for their buck. Plus it wouldn’t suprise me if we heard a source sometime this year report that Lloyd is heading for greener pastures in New England.
TRexRam - February 19, 2012
Yes
I say get him to stay, be aggressive. Passiveness has failed this team enough already. New leadership, new way forward.
Get Lloyd to stay now, one less thing to battle with down the road, when front office and coaches need to be concentrating on bringing in new bodies.
What we’ve seen so far, and what Lloyd can bring to the table as a true leader among the young WR corp, make him worth the price tag.
I;m surprised the “poll” shows so many fans who are against making this happen.
SooneRams Fan - February 19, 2012
No
There is being aggressive and being stupid. I like Lloyd, and I’m hoping he can be resigned. But as others have pointed out. Offer him a long term contract no more than 5 million a year. Ye4s to the Rams need to be aggressive and get some help. But with so many needs, bringing back a receiver from last year, a pretty good one, does not help with other areas of need especially if you blow most of the cap room for him. Just bad business.
RJM473 - February 19, 2012
Two quick ones.
If the tag is applied can Lloyd be traded afterward? But that might not make sense. And did anyone else’s eyes almost pop out of their head when they read in this article that the Rams would have only 10 mil in cap space? That’s not much for what we were working with last year. Obviously there will be many cuts which will open the flood gates on the cap space. But teams that have only 10mil of cap space should have something to show for it. We are paying for Bradford and Jackson. After that I think the money is wrapped up in the offensive line. There will be an O-line overhaul, meaning cuts.
TRexRam - February 19, 2012
Some teams like the steelers are over the cap actually
They should def show something for it and do.
ESPN did a chunk on Wallace and how teams can get him for cheap from the steelers. Something about giving a huge roster bonus, which leaves Pitt on the hook for it.
sergey606 - February 19, 2012 via mobile
Wish I'd seen that piece.
I’ve been saying this for a couple weeks. Mentioned it in a fanpost and a couple comments. Wallace is there for taking. If we traded Cleveland for both of their first round picks we could use the 22nd to sign Wallace. We’d have to do thing beforehand, instead of after the draft though.
Scato - February 19, 2012
I'll try to find a link for ya
Im still in bed on my phone. But yeah I wouldn’t mind giving up the 22 if we draft a good OL at 4.
Hmmm, maybe I can do a write up on this…?
sergey606 - February 19, 2012 via mobile
here you go man; but he only mentions Pats, Baltimore, Cincy and SF as suitors. But that could change if we trade?
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
Be hard to pull off,
since most draft trades take place on the day of the draft. But yeah, if we swing the trade before hand I would this could happen and I would love to see it.
Scato - February 19, 2012
i really wish lloyd wanted to stay
its looking like we need to trade down and pick up blackmon more and more each day.
navybluenachos33 - February 19, 2012
Don't you think "using the FranchiseTag" is a little premature?
I’m not convinced the Rams can’t “sign” him to a contract without using that tag.
One other thing, what about “Clayton”? Nobody talks about him anymore and if you’ll recall there was a time when he and Bradford “clicked” and he was the go to guy. Can anyone update us all as to how Clayton is doing.
Go Rams!
Nbr1RamFan - February 19, 2012
clayton is probably still broken, but besides that, he's still old
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
As far as the age goes Clayton is younger than Lloyd you know.
Clayton is 28 and Lloyd is 30. However, if he’s still broken like you say then that is the obvious reason to pass on him.
Nbr1RamFan - February 19, 2012
Oops, another slip, Clayton is 29.
Nbr1RamFan - February 19, 2012
He looks like he's 39 to me; Lloyd looks like he's 25.
They play how the look, I guess. Injuries don’t help. Plus because Lloyd really came to his own a couple years ago, that’s a lot less wear and tear on his body; I think Clayton started most of his career.
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
Oops! Sorry, I meant to add this link to TST's post involving Mark Clayton im my comment above.
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2011/7/30/2304824/late-night-discussion-will-mark-clayton-come-back
Nbr1RamFan - February 19, 2012
Sign lloyd to 6 per
Or move on
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
I would give him 4yrs and 25 mill with 15 guaranteed. I think thats a good deal for him and us.
kevio3000 - February 19, 2012 via Android app
If we put the bulk of his earning
In 2013 where we have cap space
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
This is quite a year for FA WRs
I don’t think Lloyd should be considered a huge loss if not signed. Whoever we sign as a #1 will cost quite a bit but by franchising him we cuff ourselves to him without playing the field. I know he’s the best we had last year but that just isn’t the standard we want to use to decide yea or nay.
dbcouver - February 19, 2012
Agreed
Would rather get stevie or jackson for 8 than lloyd for 9
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
STEVIE!!!
only 25 too
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
Buffalo has lots of cap room...
They will franchise Stevie if they can’t come to a deal. Their is just no way they can make an excuse for it to their fans if they don’t.
Scato - February 19, 2012
Many ppl in buffalo
Said that they will either tag em or let em walk
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
i can't wait till FA starts-up.
I just can’t wait for offseason stuff to start, combine baby.
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
March 5 is going to be a big day too. That's "Franchise Tag Day", and we'll know a great deal about player contract restructures and release to by then
Douglas M - February 19, 2012
yeah there are a lot of key dates between now and the draft
it’s exciting :)
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
Combine starts this next week too
wooooohooooo
dbcouver - February 19, 2012
I meant sign em not tag em
Sign em or let em walk
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
+1
Nbr1RamFan - February 19, 2012
Cause FA WRs are gonna be lining up at the door to sign with the Rams?
Doubt it bro. I’ve been hearing about how we can sign this guy and that guy. Well everyone else in the NFL wants to sign those guys too. We have a #1 WR here in Lloyd. Let’s keep him (not a 5yr contract, but 1-2 years, or at least 1 yr) and add a WR with the 1st or 2nd round pick too.
The alternative is letting him walk and signing somebody like……..MSW to fill in the gap. That’s not a good alternative.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
If we can't sign a #1 WR then we definitely have to franchise him.
imagine Amendola, Pettis, Salas, Gibson and DX as your WR corps? Even if we draft Blackmon we should still ensure that we have a real live #1 WR. Lloyd fits that bill and we already own him, so it’s a no brainer.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
yeah I imagined that WR corps last season; and it came true.
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
Ugh!
Boy, did it ever.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
I think we have to franchise him before FA begins, so he's the only one we can negotiate with.
I could be wrong, I’m not sure at all.
dbcouver - February 19, 2012
Sign or Tag Lloyd
Try to sign him, otherwise Franchise Tag him. This way we can sign Kalil at #2 or preferably trade with Cleveland and draft Kalil or Reiff with pick #4 and maybe Kendall Wright with pick #22. Since the Rams have more money to spend a year from now, they could go after a free agent WR next year if they can’t sign Lloyd. Lloyd should be properly motivated with a franchise tag because if his performance drops off his chances for big money down the line drops as well.
Mister T - February 19, 2012
That would only leave us with 600 k
He either signs or we should sign someone else
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
Dear god no
We can sign a better player, VJax, for a deal for less money per year than that.
Brick Top - February 19, 2012
One in the hand beats two in the bush........
Can we really sign a better player? I mean seriously, do great players wanna come to the Rams?
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
I dnt think its valid to spend Allllll
Our FA money on one player . One thirty year old player who exploded out of nowhere and only successful under one system in ten years
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
But it's not a long term contract.
It’s for one year. Do you think we’re gonna win the Super Bowl this year or something? Keep Lloyd, draft Blackmon and if we can sign a FA then fine. But guys like DJax and VJax aren’t a whole lot better than Lloyd, so why risk losing Lloyd for one of those types of guys?
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
We won't win it with him anyway imo
so thats a moot point. But we have many holes. Do spending too much for em leaves us dry at many positions. Doesn’t make sense
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
So why make #1 WR another hole?
Cause without Lloyd we don’t even have a legit #2 WR. And we revert back into this viscious cycle again. Makes no sense to me.
And when you say “we can just sign somebody,” who can we sign that’s as good as Lloyd? He’s on our team and he’s a sure thing. I’d take that any day.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
And if we aren't gonna win even with him like you said
Why give em 9 million to leave us after one year? I could see if we signed em to multiple years or something. But franchising and committing all of our money to a guy who will likely be passed his prime by the time we are competitve seems counterproducvtive IMO
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
So we'll go with nothing?
Literally, nothing? You want to go with Amendola, Salas, Pettis, Gibson and DX next year? Plus some rookie? Not smart IMO. And Lloyd is a stopgap, but he’s far from being past his prime. He’s still a really good WR. By far the best on the Rams last year……not even close.
Losing him puts us back in the middle ages of offense….worse than last year.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
I agree with you no doubt
But we have many holes we cannot put all of our means into just brandon lloyd. You push for a younger receiver fit less money or draft one. We could get garcon and meachum with that 9 million you want to put into lloyd.
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
Are you sure we can get those guys?
You sure they’re gonna wanna sign with the Rams when they can go anywhere else in the NFL? Me neither.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
Ok then you draft them
or would you rather pay lloyd all our money this year so we can win 6 games and he walk out on us next year any way?
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
Yes
Then worry about next year next year. Having Lloyd is the difference between having something and nothing IMO.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 20, 2012
I’m not in the mentallity of putting up a white flag before the season has begun. Do I think the Rams are going to win the Super Bowl next year, I wouldn’t bet on it. But, every team has to believe that they have a shot at it, otherwise you’re in the wrong business. You have to be careful what you wish for you just might get it.
TRexRam - February 19, 2012
No it doesn't, not when you will pay overpay out of the ass for the bird in the hand
if you really want lloyd offer him a 2 year deal at 7 million. No one else will offer him that and we will save 2.5 million.
Brick Top - February 19, 2012
That's an even better idea.
But we can’t stand to lose Lloyd without replacing him, that’s all I’m saying. It’ll be like fucking ground hog day every single year until we get some WRs who can stay healthy make plays and catch the ball. Our talent at WR is bottom of the barrel bad without Lloyd and that’s why we can’t afford to lose him…..even if we have to overpay a little.
And $3.5M per year? I think he’ll cost more than that but oh well.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
I said $7 mill a year
and I think he’s worth more along the lines of 5.5 a year
Brick Top - February 19, 2012
Is worth having a WR who has experience and can catch the ball worth $1.5M a year?
Cause that’s the bottom line if we don’t sign him.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
I think we will have to overpay for any WR we get
be it Brandon Lloyd or anyone else, but you can’t overpay by too much which the franchise tag would do.
Brick Top - February 19, 2012
He won't understand brick
Its wide reciever or bust for him. Ignore will the other clear holes we have. As long as we have brandon lloyd like this year. Its not like the draft has any receivers (sarcasm)
Ram_Redemption - February 19, 2012 via mobile
Stonehands Pettis?
I don’t see stonehands as an accurate description.
He made some really nice catches and only had 3 drops on 48 targets.
Not expecting a lot out of him, but I feel his problem isn’t his hands.
Carneros - February 19, 2012
I'm hoping that his only problem was a lack of coaching
LARams1968 - February 19, 2012
I think lack of coaching was a problem across the board
Fish and the gang will bring out the best of these guys (and get rid of the bums)
DR225 - February 19, 2012
That's just VanRam hatin' again.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 19, 2012
idk, I'm hatin' too after that PED shit
sergey606 - February 19, 2012
You can bag on him for the PED stuff. I'm disappointed with that too.
But stone hands? He put up as good of numbers as anyone drafted after him…and some who were drafted before him.
Pekka for Predator Pontiff - February 20, 2012
Pettis’s biggest problem is his speed and explosiveness. He ran a 4.6 or 4.7 range 40 at the combine and his shuttles are mediocre. He is a great route runner and has decent hands. Problem is that in the NFL you have to be quick and explosive to get open. Also that is why he was so bad at returning punts. He’s just not that fast.
TRexRam - February 19, 2012
I listened to Howard Balzer on 101ESPN this morning.
He saud the cap room was about $10 million and we have to pay our rookies out of that amount. I don’t see how we have the money to franchise Lloyd. He aslo gave numbers if we cut Jason Brown and Jason Smith. We would add roughly $2.5 million each to the cap if we cut them. That still doesn’t help all that much.
Next year we have more cap space, but we also have to sign new contracts with Chris Long and James Laurainitis. That will cost us a bunch. It sounded like close to $10 million against the cap for Long and probably not too far off that for J.L.There goes most of that big cap room we were counting on.
Ultimately it comes down to what we have been saying all along – you eventually have to build your team through the draft. There just isn’t enough cap room to buy a good team with free agents.
andyhawk - February 19, 2012
sad face
jmo53 - February 19, 2012 via Android app
I wont believe anything on cap
Unless its from the Rams…..We have to many people saying different teams….
RAMSALLTHEWAY - February 19, 2012 via mobile
Demoff told us he expects about 10 million
Brick Top - February 19, 2012
Here's the link to an article Balzer wrote about the cap.
http://www.101sports.com/category/hbalzer-blogs/20120217/Try-the-Rams’-Cap-on-for-Size/
andyhawk - February 19, 2012
I say we
Try and get lloyd, but I wouldn’t franchise him if he can’t agree to a 1-2 year deal give him the boot and plus he’s not even a young receiver anymore. I say we draft blackmon or we go for dwight jones. I think if dwight jones can get the proper teaching and coaching and pushing him to do better he’ll be great.
J-RAD2 - February 19, 2012 via mobile
Cut ties
Do not I repeat do not waste that kind of money on Lloyd. 31 years old, not guaranteed he will mentor any of the receivers we have or will draft. He is not a Bruce nor a Holt that wold have the patience nor the desire to make this team better. Lloyd is about the money and obviously OC in NE. Let him go, and we will see his numbers hit ohhhh right around where Ocho Cinco did this year. And we as ram fans can all laugh. This due to who Tom likes and trusts. Tom loves his TE and Welker.. Anyone else, they are just fillers. So let Lloyd follow McDaniels and watch Lloyd whimper and sulk all year long because he is not the man and is not getting the ball. Chad didn’t because he wanted a ring, well do you think he will stick around now? Highly unlikely. There are plenty receivers out there to pick up right now. Johnson and the Bills aren’t even close with their contract, blind side them and steel him away? Many more options besides Lloyd. Let him play his games and stand fast and let his Azzz go!!
laramsfn - February 19, 2012
One more thing
F Lloyd, draft Blackmon, and sign Wayne to a 2-3 year deal. Bet he is cheaper and i guarantee he can mentor our receivers a hell of a lot better than Lloyd. Wayne might not have the speed but I guarantee Blackmon does line Wayne up at #1, Blackmon at #2, Danny at #3 with the money we save in Wayne to Lloyd we could bring in an experienced TE to help Kendricks (Remember Davis’s first couple of years, his numbers were horrible also). Then the next year, we can drop Wayne to #2 and Blackmon to #1 and we still have Salas too.
laramsfn - February 19, 2012
Still puzzles me
why we drafted Salas and Petis when we have Danny(even prior to injury).
jmo53 - February 19, 2012 via Android app
Another great idea from the "genius" McDaniel.
andyhawk - February 19, 2012
Hey all the warning signs were there.
jmo53 - February 19, 2012 via Android app
not so breaking news
nfl.com reports that we won’t be tagging anyone. They also said they have no idea who we would even consider tagging (lol)
Ram_Redemption - February 20, 2012 via mobile
Stevie J would probably be the best investment of any FA for us, if he takes the door.
25yo established, quality wide-outs just don’t grow on trees. Get Johnson and draft one of the top CB’s.
cuseguy - February 20, 2012 via mobile
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