Christian Petersen - Getty Images
7 months ago: GLENDALE, AZ - NOVEMBER 06: Quarterback Sam Bradford #8 of the St. Louis Rams walks off the field after a a turnover on downs during the NFL game against the Arizona Cardinals at the University of Phoenix Stadium on November 6, 2011 in Glendale, Arizona. The Cardinals defeated the Rams 19-13. (Photo by Christian Petersen/Getty Images)
Brian Schottenheimer has yet to sign anything officially making him the St. Louis Rams next offensive coordinator, the third person to hold that job in three years. He is, however, expected to take the job. Where they are in the process is a matter details. Schefter says no official offer; Lombardi says all he has to do is sign.
Right now, the reaction from Rams fans on the Schottenheimer news is mixed, colored in large part by the happenings during his time with the New York Jets. It's a strange reaction from fans who use to watch the Greatest Show on Turf, and even did some low-level lobbying for Mike Martz as OC.
After the jump, we try to make a little more sense of the Schottenheimer hire.
Much of the criticism of Schottenheimer asked whether or not he tried to do too much with Mark Sanchez, undercutting the Jets' offense? Or whether he just never developed a fifth overall pick to the point where they expected him to be? Lots of people in the greater New York City area believe that.
On the other hand, the subject of Mark Sanchez and his limitations is always up for debate. Even inside the Jets' locker room, Sanchez has his detractors. Mark Sanchez is not an elite quarterback, nor has he reached his ceiling. Over at SB Nation St. Louis, Dan Moore points out that Schottenheimer oversaw Sanchez' indoctrination, starting out by sheltering him with a run-heavy offense and gradually putting more on the quarterback in his third season.
It is true that the Rams will need to improve their offensive personnel. Danny Amendola returns this season; Brandon Lloyd might. They have to have a more competent group of receivers than they did in Bradford's first two seasons. The offensive line is the other big concern. Outside of Harvey Dahl, there's little indication that they have the personnel to protect their quarterback.
The Rams drafted Bradford because he had big time abilities. His accuracy was off the charts. His arm strength wasn't going to confuse anyone with a battleship gun, but he could make his deep throws with very little effort. Bradford is smart, possessing an understanding for the game, even if that didn't show this season, one marked more by setbacks than highlights.
If Schottenheimer's offense fails to get off the ground, we'll also have to ask if Bradford is part of the problem.
Hiring Schottenheimer this quickly bodes well for the Rams. It means that he and Bradford can start hitting the books right away, getting up to speed even before OTAs. Hopefully, Schottenheimer's past is a good indication that he understands the need for intensive coaching directly with his quarterback. We thought the same with McDaniels, but circumstances, i.e. the lockout and power struggles, conspired against that.
For now, you have to take it for what it is, a new start. Considering where the Rams have been, that's progress.
0 recs | 89 comments
I love what the Rams are doing!!
first Jeff Fisher then Brian Schottenheimer and finally Greg Williams!! This is awesome
Cameron David Miri - January 16, 2012
yup it feels great
to know real men will lead this team now. and we have alittle talent to work with i could see us winning 6 to 10 games if the draft and Fa go well
G unit Rams - January 16, 2012
Let's see...
Head coach with winning record – check
Blitzing, aggressive D coordinator – check
Air Coryell disciple O coordinator – check
This is the most hopeful I have been since before week 17 last year.
STLRambler - January 16, 2012
Im gonna trust in fish that he knows what he's doing! '
kevio3000 - January 16, 2012 via Android app
I believe in the Fish
RAMSALLTHEWAY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
jf is a good coach
he knows football and can put together a good staff. one i feel we did not have with spags. with seattle and zona coming on strong at the 2nd half of the season the nfc west will no longer be the laughing stock of the league. you get better by playing better competition.
hbwb - January 16, 2012
Hell ya!
Thank you Kroenke for giving us some positivity after this terrible season
Rcoon1307 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I agree its the year of the FISH!!!
Ramzman18 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Im gonna go out on a limb
And say schotty plus bradford is better than schotty and sanchez.
Ram_Redemption - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I feel that:
When you look at what Shotty had done before Sanchez, combined with how hopefully he has learned from his failures in NY, and how the Air Corryell is the most similar offense to what Sam ran in college (which hopefully helps the learning curve).
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
These are all things that would bode well for the Rams
And obviously Fisher will keep it from getting to Martzy, while Shotty means we won’t get too conservative
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm all in
After losing the last 3 hands I don’t have much left. It’s make or break . Go fish.
Mudsharktoo - January 16, 2012
I see what you did there sir
Very nice
Sundowner - January 16, 2012 via mobile
As many know Sam fan here and heres what I think
This is Sams 4th offense in 4 years as every one knows (including college). If Sam does not show improvement during this year the rams should absolutely trade him and start all over with another qb whether it be in FA or Draft.
Pain me to say but if he doesn’t show improvement maybe they are better off cutting ties with him because in that situation he cannot succeed here and at that point its just wasting talent that just won’t pan out here with all that’s happened, just IMO though.
RG31 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Hopefully
They will hire a qb coach (maybe Heupel?) to help Sam progress. With a full offseason, Sam can learn the offense. It’s a matter of his personal progression.
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
And on that players around him
If his line can give him some time and these wr actually create some dame separation, then he will excel. But as long as he gets no help, we will see the Sam from last season..
RG31 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Yep, but just give him a good (not even great or amazing line) and some WR's
And he will be a great QB
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Agreed
Too bad it might be wasted here, completely down about this team right now..
RG31 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm gonna give Fisher a chance to right the ship
Everyone else is in “harbinger of the end time” mode
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
True
I didn’t really like fish but he was the best candidate, hope he sees his failures in the past and corrects them.
RG31 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I don't see being a dumpster fire with him as a possibility (maybe 2%)
Will he have them win 12 games a year? (10%). Will he be Tom Coughlin basically from a wins and stability situation? (80%). The last percent is something I don’t know how to describe (8%)
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
And btw, I love the idea of Gregg Williams
With Long and Quinn
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Schottenheimer is Pat Shurmer Part II
In six seasons running the Jets’ offense, Schottenheimer had just one Top 10 ranking in either Total Offense of Points Scored. Only twice did his teams rank in the top half of the league in Total Offense.
This obvious ball control philosophy is a recipe for failure in today’s NFL. Even SF is ranked #11 in points this season while Baltimore ranks 12th.
Here are the Jets’ rankings in Total Yards and Points under Schotty:
2006 – 25/18
2007 – 26/25
2008 – 16/9
2009 – 20/17
2010 – 11/13
2011 – 25/13
And here are how the QB’s Schottenheimer worked with fared under his command and how they improved once he was no longer their OC:
Pennington 2007 with Schottenheimer: 86.1 QB Rating
Pennington 2008 without: 97.4
Favre 2008 with Schottenheimer: 81.0
Favre 2009 without: 107.2
Brees 2005 with Schottenheimer: 89.2
Brees since Schottenheimer: 99.2
Ferragamo - January 16, 2012
Favre had a LOADED offense in Minnesota. and he had a torn rotator cuff four like 8 games in NY
And Brees didn’t hit his prime till he went to NO, where he has SEAN PAYTON!
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
That's incorrect.
Brees started playing lights out when Rivers was drafted, creating a quarterback controversy in SD.
FailureDrill - January 16, 2012 via Android app
So your saying he WAS playing lights out
And with the Saints he has SEAN PAYTON! the best offensive genius in the NFL
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
All I remember was
SD had basically given up on him and drafted Rivers. Then seemingly out of nowhere, Brees started playing some pretty excellent football… prior to playing under Payton.
Obviously, Payton’s coaching didn’t hurt… but you could tell Drew was going to be something special when he was still in San Diego.
FailureDrill - January 16, 2012 via Android app
Injury was the reason SD parted ways with Breeze
They had concern about him coming back from an injury and with Rivers, a high draft pick, on the roster it was pretty much a no-brainer.
Sggladden - January 16, 2012
So he was playing great in San Diego (which is not what this guy suggests)
And then he goes to NO, where he has Sean Payton (the best offensive coach in the league) and they built the offense around him
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
He was playing good in SD not great.
Rivers played well so Breeze was not brought back. The injury scared a lot of teams away from Breeze but Peyton took a chance on him because he fit what he wanted to do. The rest is history.
Sggladden - January 16, 2012
And he had a ball control team cause his HC's were Mangini and Rex
Too WAY over controlling coaches who just want to win with defense
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Btw, I'm not saying he will be great
But just giving the other side of your argument
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
How did his team rank in terms of wins?
Stats are great and all but you can have great stats that put your team in a lousy position to win games.
Honestly I have no opinion on Schottenheimer as an OC. I also think people put way too much importance into the OC in terms of performance. Ultimately it’s mostly about the players executing… or not. Good players can make poor systems work and poor players can kill even the most brilliant game plan.
I suspect the idea behind Schottenheimer is to bring someone in with a similar system to McDaniels to help Bradford transition into a new system with as much ease as possible.
Sggladden - January 16, 2012
Schotty in a nut shell
Hi guys, I’m a big Jets fan and posted this on GGN. This is my honest opinion on Schotty, you can call it sour grapes, but I think I’m being pretty fair.
In 6 years as OC, he’s had 4 different QBS, different WRs, different OLine, different, RBs, different head coaches and yet they never have ranked higher than 11th and have only been in the top 16 offenses twice (11th and 16th). Despite vastly different personnel groups the fact that they’ve been 25th, 26th, 16th, 20th, 11th, and 25th (average of 20.5). The QBs he’s had (kellen clemens aside) were a short pass WCO style player in Pennington, a down the field gunslinger in Favre, and a young rookie who is best on the run in play action in Sanchez. No matter who the personnel was, he always seemed to try and hammer a square peg into a round hole and never adjusted scheme to match his player’s strengths. I have thought he was a horrible OC since his second season, so I may be biased, but the numbers back it up. 21st in offense over the past six years is simply not very good no matter how you look at it
Crimetime Island - January 16, 2012
First, thanks for the opinion, let me give you this:
Pennington can’t be a great qb (injury issues etc.), Favre had a torn rotator cuff half the year (and was doing really good before that) and may have not even wanted to go there, and Sanchez is well, Sanchez
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
The feeling I get from upsatate NY fans...
They were thrilled to get rid of Schotty and pissed to hear about Sparano. Not everybody is taking blame away from the players (mainly sanchez) and other coaches but they seem to be generally thrilled with this guy leaving and that makes me worry a little bit.
ThemBones - January 16, 2012
You're also trusting the opinions of Jets fans
I’ve learned to largely not do
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Oh, I know what you're saying King.
I agree, Jets fans are nutcases for the most part LOL. I’m just throwing out the feel I get from the radio where I live. I voted somewhat approve because i do have some hesitation from the numbers I’ve seen and the talk from the radio. Hoping for the best that Fisher has a guy that can get it done.
ThemBones - January 16, 2012
I somewhat approve
Cause it’s not like we hired Sean Payton, but hopefully Shotty will not have an overbearing coach like he did in NY (which changes ALL your play calling) and hopefully he learns and improves from his failures
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Well put
There are still plenty of folks that put the blame squarely on Ryan or Sanchez. The majority of the venom is aimed at Schotty though from what I can tell. It’s a team sport in many aspects and we don’t who, and it may be a combination, is to blame for the jets shortcomings.
ThemBones - January 16, 2012
I don't think Shotty is like Shurmur like Jets fans want to say he is
And I feel like Rex said “don’t turn the ball over, just let my defense keep us in the game” more often than not.
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Hopefully
we just stole a great OC that was in bad situation.
ThemBones - January 16, 2012
Idk or think he will be "great"
I think he will be good, and I think it’s a good offense for Sam
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm hearing a lot of over generalization
Obviously Schottenheimer did something right given that your Jets made it to the AFC Championship twice.
I’m sure he has his flaws and made a few bonehead calls… that comes with the territory and the only OCs that don’t have similar issues are the ones that are conservative to a flaw. To what degree he screwed up, I think that’s hard for us fans to determine so I defer to Fisher’s ability evaluate him.
Also let’s not overlook the fact that the Schottenheimer under Ryan will not be the same as Schottenheimer under Fisher.
I think the Jets have some serious locker room issues and probably were in need of a major change in their offense to shake things up. Schottenheimer was an easy scape goat. I’ll give the guy the benefit of the doubt. It’s probably a situation where both Schottenheimer and the Jets will be better off by their parting ways.
Sggladden - January 16, 2012
I'm surprised the Jets haven't gone after Spags as their DC?
Douglas M - January 16, 2012
Not a Ryan type of style
wouldn’t be a fit
Brick Top - January 16, 2012
SO how do you explain his failure with the Jets?
Better receivers, MUCH better offensive line and a QB who hasn’t had a season as bad as Bradford did this past year. I’ll let this guy sum up his feelings about Schotty:
I’m a Jets fan.
Been one since 1989, so I’ve seen a lot of terrible football. I saw the team go 4-28 in a two-year span between 1995 and 1996. It took me nine years to see my first winning season (1997).
But in all that time, and with all those bad teams, I never saw an offensive coordinator as inept, arrogant, and self-destructive as Schottenheimer. Never.
Whether it’s his inane fascination with elaborate shifts that never seem to fool the opponent as often as his own team, his obsession with the WR screen and other low-horizon horizontal passing plays, or his fundamental inability to run on third and short and pass on third and long, he will find a way to get as little out of his personnel as humanly possible.
He calls more horizontal short-yardage passing plays than any coordinator I’ve ever seen. We’re talking about WR screens caught at the line of scrimmage, seven-yard out routes, and seven-yard slants. Now these plays are fine when you throw the deep ball enough that defensive backs can’t sit on the shallow routes. But when nearly EVERYTHING you call is within 10 yards of the LOS, you invite defenses to sit on those routes, and that’s a big reason why mark Sanchez’s completion percentage and interceptions totals are what they are.
Do we really want to see more drive-killing, 3rd and 9-guaranteeing Wide Receiver screens around here???
Ferragamo - January 16, 2012
Where's the edit option?
All but the last sentence was supposed to be in italics. Final question was mine.
Ferragamo - January 16, 2012
There is no edit option.
Use the “Preview” option before you post next time.
FailureDrill - January 16, 2012 via Android app
Ummmm, Sanchez's numbers have improved every single year
Explain that?
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
And I'm sorry, I just DONT care what Jets fans have to say because:
1) you went to two straight AFC championships and in the playoffs, Sanchez’s numbers go up
2) Rex Ryan kills offenses IMO
3) Sanchez is Sanchez, and not enough Jet fans see that
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm aghast at these poll results.
Optimism is nice, but being backed by tangible evidence as a foundation would help. I hope I’m wrong, but I’ve seen my fair share of Jets games, and the Schottenheimer signing just makes me ill. Certainly doesn’t bode well for whoever’s looking for a high-powered offense – which is increasingly vital in the modern NFL.
It’s not exclusively Ryan’s fault, and it’s not exclusively Sanchez’s fault. Frankly, I’d rather not find out just how much blame is in Schotty’s hands for years of insomnia-curing offenses.
Abrantes - January 16, 2012
You need a balance of offense and defense
Like the Giants
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
The Giants were bailed out by their offense on numerous occasions this year.
Finished the regular season as the seventh-worst defense in yards allowed, and eighth-worst in points allowed en route to an 8-8 record. They seem to have found a groove now, but this wasn’t a balanced team in 2011.
Abrantes - January 16, 2012
They still have that pass rush
It’s a defense that is capable of playing great, and that’s with all of the injuries they had before the season
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I'm all for being a high flying offense
But since the Pack and Saints are out, it’s not the THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE TO DO route that you are suggesting
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I didn't say "this is what we have to do".
No need to put words in my mouth, man – much less in caps, as I don’t think I was that outspoken about it.
I agree with your broader point that offense and defense are traditionally necessary. It just so happens that offenses have been getting deadlier thanks to rules, players, schemes or what have you. Not a particularly contentious point. All I’m saying is that the Rams have to keep up.
Look at what the Giants’ and Niners’ offenses (not what many would call high-powered) put up to beat the Pack and Saints, just this weekend.
NYG: 420 total yards, 37 points (20 points against)
SF: 407 total yards, 36 points (32 points against)
They weren’t exactly carried by their defenses.
Abrantes - January 16, 2012
Agree, sorry man, thought you meant to go the "all offense, no defense" route
I want a balance like the Giants
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, I know you didn't mean to offend, it's all good man.
Just wanted to clear it up, cheers.
Abrantes - January 16, 2012
So what will we see from this offense
As in running vs passing? More passing or more running the ball?
RG31 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
More punting.
Abrantes - January 16, 2012
Haha touche
RG31 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Depends, Shotty will want to throw it, and Jeff will want to keep it balanced
So I’d say it’s about even
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
first off the winers needs to stop whining and crying about the new OC when he hasn't
even had a chance to work with the Rams each team has different approaches so a coach I’m sure he’ll have a different approach here it also depends on LARGELY WHO THE HC cause if you don’t think a hc has a say in what play’s are called or not then your a moron. I would also suggest taking what any nyj fan says about him with a grain of salt cause frankly if a rams fan ever went on their web site to say something about any of there new hires they’d laugh them off the site.
Freewheeler2 - January 16, 2012
When you have Rex Ryan, you ARE GOING to Shurmur more than not
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
NY Jets Fan's Opinion On Schotty
Us NY Jets fans are curious to find out how Schotty will do in St. Louis with Bradford, becasue we’ve been debating whether Schotty or Sanchez has been holding the team back for 3 years now. I don’t think anyone knows for sure, but Schotty is capable of putting together a great game plan as displayed several times with the Jets. Unfortunately, he is also capable of crapping the bed. I’m glad to see him go, because in his years as Jets OC the following were constants:
1. False starts penalties
2. Motion penalties (Schotty loves to motion WRs, TEs, RBs)
3. Players not knowing where to line up
4. Players confusing assignments
5. Lack of discipline.
Maybe it was the personel, but Schotty is either boom or bust. Good luck St. Louis.
GangGreenFan - January 16, 2012
Question:
How do you think Rex’s overly consvervative attitude, and “I want nothing by thugs” approach affected it? And thanks for being rational.
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Answer:
Jets fans never got a straight answer on this. When Mangini was fired, Schotty complained that Mangini was overbearing and too meddlesome. Then when Rex was hired, he supposedly let Schotty have full control of the offense. However, you can find numerous media reports that when Sanchez had bad streches of games, Rex would get involved in the offense. Speifically, Rex would give Sanches a color coded situation book/wrist band or demand more ground and pound. But this was typically only after the offense was performing terribly. So not sure, chicken vs egg argument.
GangGreenFan - January 16, 2012
I have never seen the full control Rex said he'd give personally
IMO Rex is like “we are gonna give you full control, and you can’t do what you want. Just don’t turn the ball over and let my defense keep us in the game” which would say Shotty had control over what they did, but had restrictions being put on by Rex
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
*you can do what you want
Not can’t
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
When Rex was hired, the owner and GM made him keep Schotty
The thinking was Rex would be the DC and motivator and Schotty the OC. However, the Jets offense frequently went from being too aggressive and wide-open to then being too conservative. This probably was a result of Rex getting involved, but that only happend after some major stink-bomb performances by the offense. For example, the the Jets-Ravens game this year. The Jets kept trying to pass even though Nagata and Suggs were living in the Jets backfield.
GangGreenFan - January 16, 2012
Part of Sanchez being Sanchez
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
So you're telling me that Sanchez dropping back 67 times vs. the Giants
against only 22 called rushes was Rex’s idea?
Exystence - January 16, 2012
to me those problems seem to be a lack of execution by the player
instead of bad calls by the OC. Players need to execute the plays. Coaches can only do so much.
Brick Top - January 16, 2012
It's a little of both
But yes, when your team has Antonio Cromartie on it, the team IQ can’t be that high
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
QB Coach
The only way that this move is a great move for us is if we hire a QB coach who can take over the role of OC after Schottenheimer leaves. There is no doubt that if he has just one good season with Sam, he’ll get hired somewhere else as a HC. Then Sam will have to move on to yet another offense.
CoolRam - January 16, 2012
Josh Heupel?
He’d be an amazing qb coach for Sam, although as an OU fan, idk if I like him as our play caller
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
He's the O Coordinator
I don’t think he would leave
RAMSALLTHEWAY - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Depends
Maybe for Sam, cause as I see it, Josh Heupel wants to go off at some point and develop away from Stoops to prove himself, and if he does it well, he will be the guy to become our coach whenever Stoops leaves. And if he were to crash away from Stoops, he can come back as our qb coach. That’s how I think he sees it
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I've been thinking the same thing. This is a resume stop for Schotty, possibly Williams too?
Douglas M - January 16, 2012
Williams is here cause its close to his home and his best friend in coaching is Fisher
King Sam Rules! - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Absolutely
All we need is continuity. Maybe Williams won’t leave seeing that he’s best friends with Fisher and he took his name out of the Broncos HC search last year. So maybe he doesn’t want to be a HC. Schottenheimer on the other hand, is basically doing exactly what McDaniels did when he came here. If McD was successful, he would be a HC right now.
CoolRam - January 16, 2012
On a side note
Why are we hiring secondary coaches before we hire a GM?
CoolRam - January 16, 2012
The GM search seems to have taken a backseat, hasn't it? I wonder if Fisher is trying to hire his guys before a GM comes in and wants input on the choices?
Douglas M - January 16, 2012
Perhaps the GM is already selected?
Hell the HC hasn’t even signed his deal yet. Looks to me as if the Fisher hire wasn’t just the hiring of a single man but rather an entire regime.
Sggladden - January 16, 2012
As a guy who follows the jets...I say good luck.
And as a 49ers fan, I’m not sure whether to tell you whether having Schotty around will be worse than the Alex Smith treatment.
Schotty ruins young Qbs. That said, if you guys get rid of him after the season (which I assure you, you’ll want to) you’ll be giving Bradford the Alex Smith treatment by switching his OC and offense every freaking year.
Good luck. Either path taken, you’ll need some luck going forward. I feel bad for Bradford, it’s a shitty position to be in.
Also, Bradford isn’t the problem. The guy played hurt all season and had to throw off his back foot all the time, which are conditions that any QB will fail in.
runningblack - January 16, 2012
I'm honestly find with it
just hope the coaching staff gels together.
Williams however….well, the saints aren’t known for their D, I’ll leave it at that.
sergey606 - January 16, 2012
It's cause their players suck...
Peyton wouldn’t have given up money for a garbage coach.
x Nightwing x - January 16, 2012
what offence does he run?
west coast? mcdaniel’s type? two tight end?
ramsfanman - January 16, 2012
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