Whitney Curtis - Getty Images
5 months ago: ST. LOUIS, MO - JANUARY 1: Wide receiver Brandon Lloyd #83 of the St. Louis Rams sit on the bench in the second half of the game against the San Francisco 49ers on January 1, 2012 at the Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis, Missouri. The 49ers defeated the Rams 34-27. (Photo by Whitney Curtis/Getty Images)
After Jeff Fisher week ends in a few days, I'm sure I hope we will finally know which team Fisher chooses, and hopefully, it won't be the Rams. It's tough as a Rams fan to not want Fisher; out of the pool of head coaches, he obviously has the most experience. But the last time I checked, experience isn't everything.
Note from Van: I bumped this up a half hour, because I think it's a good point-counterpoint piece with VT's from earlier this morning.
The first problem I have is that everyone seems to think he is the best coaching candidate out there, but he isn't. Have you wondered why Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher and to a lesser extent Jon Gruden are standing pat and waiting for a perfect opportunity to come their way if they want to coach again? It's because they've actually won something. Fisher hasn't. I don't mean that in a mean way, as Fisher clearly has shown he can lead a team to a division title, and even to a Super Bowl (once. Out of 16 full seasons). But when everyone thinks Fisher is some elite coach - he really isn't. He's above average and that is mostly because of his longevity with the Titans.
To drive that home, let's look at his records and more importantly, his team. He led the Titans to a 142-120 record In his time there. You say: "that's better than Spagnuolo!" and you'd be right. You know who else was better than Spagnuolo? Everyone. So forget about comparing the records between the two.
Hit the jump if you haven't been stuffed with Fisher-esk kool-aid.
What of the Titans (and Oilers) defense and offense? Well, I did you a favor and went all the way back to 1994, his first year with the team, to look at Football Outsiders advanced metrics. Here is what I found:
| Year | Offense Rank | Defense Rank |
| 2010 | 20 | 8 |
| 2009 | 15 | 27 |
| 2008 | 16 | 5 |
| 2007 | 20 | 1 |
| 2006 | 24 | 20 |
| 2005 | 20 | 30 |
| 2004 | 18 | 24 |
| 2003 | 4 | 11 |
| 2002 | 6 | 18 |
| 2001 | 7 | 24 |
| 2000 | 16 | 1 |
| 1999 | 3 | 20 |
| 1998 | 7 | 27 |
| 1997 | 12 | 16 |
| 1996 | 15 | 18 |
| 1995 | 26 | 7 |
| 1994 | 28 | 25 |
| AVERAGE | 15.12 | 16.59 |
What a surprise...completely average. I'll admit, they had a good run back in the day when they went to the Superbowl. But Fisher's longevity has given us an interesting look into statistics. I'm no math major, but I'll take a stab and say a great coach would deviate towards losing (with bad offensive and defensive units), while a decent coach would deviate towards winning (with great offensive and defensive units). Overall, what group would you put Fisher in?
The fact about is, Fisher hasn't done anything extraordinary. Great coaches deserve extraordinary benefits and praise. Ordinary coaches do not deserve Executive Vice President of Football Operation titles. If the Rams give this title to Fisher, then any "stability" they hope to achieve will be at the mercy of the almighty Fisher. Just because you were forced to draft Vince Young does not give you the option to whine about not having full control.
If you want to give Fisher close to 10 million dollars to basically control the team, then by all means, carry on. But it sure seems stupid for a fan base so angry that the team is poisoned with a losing mentality for that same group of people to accept an average coach - pay him exuberant amounts of money - give him total control over every facet of the team, and settle for stability?
I'm sorry, but I thought the whole point of finding a new coach is to win. I find it a little ridiculous to be clamoring over a coach that hasn't done much winning. He's not a bad coach; he's just not amazing. He's above average at best and has parlayed the weak coaching pool to maximize his profits by yanking around teams that are in the dumps. Nothing more, nothing less.
Final point: If you are O.K. with Jeff Fisher's six winning seasons in seventeen years of coaching, then you should be completely fine with the St. Louis Rams, as they've had four winning seasons in the seventeen years they've been in St. Louis.
If you're OK with those numbers, by all means, clamor over him.
1 recs | 41 comments
best paragraph of article:
“To drive that home, let’s look at his records and more importantly, his team. He led the Titans to a 142-120 record In his time there. You say: “that’s better than Spagnuolo!” and you’d be right. You know who else was better than Spagnuolo? Everyone. So forget about comparing the records between the two."
LMAO
Great piece Eric!
VTramsFan - January 13, 2012
Lol..Literally the last article on TST was “Why Fisher should choose the Rams” and followed up with this one.. “Don’t Hire Fisher”. Which one is it!? Quit messing with my fragile emotions!? What am I suppose to think!? hahah
JonHatesMilk - January 13, 2012
is there anywhere else on the web
where you can read so many diverse opinions on the Rams? :-)
VTramsFan - January 13, 2012
I Rec that!
crashoveride01 - January 13, 2012
The non-winning argument is overstated
When you analyze what Jeff Fisher has accomplished you will see a track record of capability to rebuild and retool his team. I see him as more of a solution in terms of laying a solid foundation for the franchise than a slick coach that can sell off the future to get you to a Superbowl quick and leave you in desperate straits as he goes out the door to cash in on a network job. Frankly I don’t see Cower or Gruden as bringing anything more to the table than Fisher and since both have rejected returning to coaching with the Rams job out there they are a non factor.
As many have pointed out the younger coaches are where the innovation is but the problem is they lack the experience and credibility so it’s very difficult for them to not get overwhelmed. The strongpoint about Fisher is that he doesn’t meddle with his staff and allows them to do their thing. He is a master at getting his teams to play hard and seems to be capable of dealing with young players as long as they aren’t complete head cases.
Sggladden - January 13, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, but is he worth it at the cost thats being demanded?
$8 million plus executive VP power? Fisher’s results with the Titans were as a HC, not as a HC and glorified GM. The team hiring him is going to expect more than just stability given his demands. Nothing short of being a Superbowl contender in 2-3 yrs will be the expectation. Otherwise the media, fans, and possibly even the owner will begin questioning the money spent on him. I know his record in Tennessee was mediocre, but if he doesn’t turn his next team around as quickly as Billi-cheat did the Pats he will be viewed as a failure. I don’t think he has the ability to do that with either the Rams or Dolphins.
Da Rams! - January 13, 2012
Hard to say
I won’t pretend to know the answer because there is a lot about the situation that I don’t know.
What I do know is Fisher would bring immediate credibility and a very good staff. I feel the pressure would be far less in StL. Hell 7 wins would probably get him a parade.
I just don’t think you can expect the team or fans to buy into someone with out experience given the last two disastrous hires. It’s probably something beyond wisdom but the fatigue factor is weighing heavy on the entire Rams community.
Sggladden - January 13, 2012
Agreed.
It’s as though getting to the SB once in 16 years is something everyone does. By that logic, there are only 2 good coaches every year.
thisguy - January 13, 2012
Also by that kind of logic
Mike Martz is a great coach ; )
Sggladden - January 13, 2012
If the Rams could hire Chudzinski, I'd love it.
I’m familiar with the facts on Fisher, though I have a slightly higher opinion of him. Achieving any kind of positive consistency is tough in the NFL, and that’s what teams are paying for in this case.
That said, I’d much rather get an offensive mind like Chud, and if I got the feeling that it was close, I’d say to hell with Fisher.
Abrantes - January 13, 2012
Can't say I agree
Perhaps because they don’t want to coach our sorry team? Maybe they want a better situation than what’s perceived as a rebuild here and an owner that’s tough to deal with in Miami?
There are a lot of possible reasons there. Fisher has a system that should bring us out of the ashes at worst. Maybe a change of scenery will benefit him, too. Perhaps he will come in more focused than ever and be even better than he was before!
…nah…we should just hire another coordinator and let them experiment and tinker with our team for a few years…
Oski Bear - January 13, 2012
Exactly, because they have nothing to prove
Fisher still does. That’s why he’s set on the Dolphins or Rams, because obviously both organizations are in perfect shape right now.
Eric Nagel - January 13, 2012
Jon Gruden won a SB with a team Dungy built then failed
his record faltered and he was eventually fired. He hasn’t proven he can build his own team or draft well yet.
Oh well…Fisher is in…good times!
Oski Bear - January 13, 2012
Hmmm
Winning v Non-winning is over-stated. It depends on what you have and what you can do with it. I.e. Martz should have won a superbowl with the Rams, but did not. Dungy should have won several Superbowls with the Colts, but he was consistently out-coached by Bellicheat.
Fisher’s time in Tennessee, he didn’t always get the players he wanted as he had issues with Young and Haynesworth, and couldn’t keep the Freak (Kearse) in Tennessee. He developed average players such as Wycheck and George into household names. Fisher had to play in tough AFC South (Colts 2X a year right?)! Spags got exactly the type of players he wanted, and look at his record against a terrible NFC West!
These are reasons to be satisfied with Fisher. If Fisher gets to assist in the choosing of his GM, he’s going to pick someone who shares his ideals. This is what we need!
Not too hot on the Saints DC though. They don’t exactly have the best defense in the NFL. I could pass on Williams and would rather go after the Jags DC.
81 Witness - January 13, 2012
*sigh*
When Dick Vermeil was hired out of retirement the first time, it was as Head Coach and President of Football Operations. At that point he had 9-1/2 years of head coaching experience at all levels (7-1/2 in the NFL), had been away from the league almost as long as Fisher has been an NFL head coach, and was a scant 7 games above .500 with the Eagles. Vermiel ’97 = average. Heck, Vermiel ’11 = average.
I’m not suggesting that Fisher’s gonna win a Super Bowl in year three, but it’s not as if the Rams would be pioneers in handing titles and authority to someone who might seem to be unqualified for such things.
The franchise needs experience, not another experiment.
Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
Well said
I was just going to write a comment saying the exact same thing!
mcihaelT - January 13, 2012
But what's the alternative to Fisher?
Another coordinator with no head coach experience? Do we roll the dice again? Maybe the third time’s the charm or maybe we watch another three seasons go down the toilet.
As annoying as this whole process with JF has been, today I’ll take mediocrity over humiliating incompetence. That’s what the Linehan-Spagnuolo years have done to me.
CumberlandRam - January 13, 2012
Agree Cumberland...
One other thing – I mentioned in another article about what Tony Dungy was up to these days, and whether anyone was happy to have him on board as HC. Let’s just say the response wasn’t very positive. Is he not looked at as a good alternative?
JoolzMF - January 13, 2012
Rams....
Sorry but Fisher wanting full control of player personnel is not going to work. Rarely does a team succeed when the HC decides who plays and who gets drafted.
The coaches coach the GM gives him the players. That’s the bottom line.
Ricksome - January 13, 2012
Rare in context
It rarely works because too often first-time head coaches negotiate this type of authority (or wrestle it away from someone once they get inside the building). If the head coach is eventually going to have the authority
-and let’s face it, whomever it is will eventually try to take it if he didn’t get it from the outset-why not give it straight away to someone who’s a proven NFL head coach?Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
Name a first-time HC that got that kind of control.
Ramfan4life - January 13, 2012
Josh McDaniels.
Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
How did that work out?
So one time = too often
Ramfan4life - January 13, 2012
You asked me to name one.
But your apparent eagerness to be right rather than carry on a conversation, you also seem to have skimmed over the the part where I wrote “or wrestle it away from someone once they get inside the building.” The examples are numerous at Rams Park since 2000.
Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
The FO needs to work as a team just like the players do.
Ramfan4life - January 13, 2012
No one disagrees with this
Understanding that, if a head coach is eventually going to try to take control of the team, why carry on with the pretense that he’s going to report to the GM, who will handle the personnel matters, until they all sing nursery rhymes over lunch?
One of the things that Kroenke does very well is define the organizational structure that runs his teams. Time and again he puts one person in charge of the player personnel, but he’s flexible enough that it doesn’t have to be a GM. It’s team president Pierre LaCroix with the Avs, but George Karl with the Nugs and Arsene Wenger with Arsenal. Sure, there are people at the Nugs and Arsenal who have titles that would traditionally be considered above the head coach/manager; but everyone knows who’s in charge and ain’t the GM (or whatever the equivalent is at Arsenal).
Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
I want the Rams to win
So what ever works is cool with me so long as everyone knows who is in charge and who will be fired if they fuck up.
Ramfan4life - January 13, 2012
Yeah, because it worked so well with Mike Holmgren
Good coach.
By far one of the shittiest GM’s known to man.
Eric Nagel - January 13, 2012
Meanwhile...
It’s worked out famously for Bill Belichick.
Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
Just look at the defense
LOADED with talent
Eric Nagel - January 13, 2012
It hasn’t always performed like it was (see 2001, 2002, 2005, 2010, 2011). Thankfully for them they had an offense that could score.
Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
Has to be Fisher
One thing that can’t be overlooked is the quality of assistant coaches who Fisher will bring with him. For all the mistakes Spags made, one of the biggest disappointments was player development. That task, while falling partly on the HC, falls more squarely on the position coaches and individual coordinators. The assistant coaches, by all accounts, were a complete failure. The Rams, although it may seem otherwise, are not completely bereft of talent. A look at the O-Line tells the story.
The O-Line, at the start of the season, featured a promising 2nd round talent at LT, three high priced FAs manning the interior, and a #2 overall pick at RT. It is not ridiculous to think that they should have been a better unit. I believe the failure of the line had more to do with coaching than individual talent.
In the end, I do not think hiring Fisher can be judged on him alone, but the coaching staff that he can compile. A HC is only as good as the bevy of coaches supporting him, and I think Fisher presents the best opportunity for a solid all-around coaching staff.
mcihaelT - January 13, 2012
Excellent analysis.
If the only reason you want Fisher is because he is the “best” former Head Coach who seems willing to coach again then I think you have a problem. But if you see specific attributes that Fisher will bring to the Rams [ ie. player development, offensive expertise, discipline, etc.] that other candidates lack, then I think you are on the right track.
After reading through the thread more carefully I see that a few of you [ mIT, sgg, 81Wit ] have done that.
NorthLeft12 - January 13, 2012
I don't think any good coach would lack those qualities
Player development? Offensive expertise? Discipline?
Those are not traits exclusive to Jeff Fisher.
Eric Nagel - January 13, 2012
I agree
But Fisher will seemingly provide stability, something that is hard to predict for a 1st time HC. He has already proven himself as a HC. The one thing I do not want, as a Rams fan, is another up-and-coming coordinator who turns out to be incapable of being an effective HC. And then 3 years later we have this same conversation again. Could Fisher be horrible? Of course. But for now, I’d rather dance with the devil I know.
mcihaelT - January 13, 2012
I was only using those traits as examples.
I was trying to say that you should identify proven strengths of a coach that you think the Rams need. I really have no idea if those are strengths of Fisher, and even less idea if you think that Fisher’s strengths as a coach will suit the needs of the Rams.
Personally, I thought the Rams should have hired a GM first, then have him participate in the selection of the HC. These days you need to have these two on the same page and one of them in charge. Preferably the GM.
NorthLeft12 - January 13, 2012
Great article! Rec'd
Both you and VT did a great job showing a “point – counter point”. I have to agree withe Eric though because I get the feeling that Fisher is being looked at as a legendary coach, and he just isn’t. I think he’d be a fine choice, he’s not the “be all – end all”. I’m also dubious of giving a coach that much power. How many coaches in the modern game, who had that much say-so in every aspect of a team have been successful? Belichick is the only one I can think of at the moment?
Douglas M - January 13, 2012
Thanks Doug. I do agree Fisher is WAY over rated.
VTramsFan - January 13, 2012
Jimmy Johnson had considerable power under Jerry Jones, more so than every other Cowboys head coach since (including Parcells). That is, he had it until he didn’t. Mike Shanahan did in Denver (until he didn’t).
Rob in Denver - January 13, 2012
I could not agree with you more Eric!
Good for you, you are my hero for the day.
I for one am sick and tired of all this damn hype about Fisher. I never felt he was that great to begin with and I’m relying on Stan Kroenke, being the savy business man he is, to make the right decision here.
If this all turns out for the worst by season’s end then I’ll probably jump on the bandwagon of folks who really don’t care if the Rams move out of town. Never in my life have I ever remained so true to a team as the Rams and yet have felt such utter disapointment in a team. Enough is enough!
Thank god we have the St. Louis Cardinals!
Go Cardinals!
Nbr1RamFan - January 13, 2012
i'll take the Polish Jew Buszinski for $500
DevsLaRams - January 13, 2012
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